July 23, 2014 at 2:10 p.m.
Sewer debate heats up (02/24/2009)
Jay County Regional Sewer District
By By STEVE GARBACZ-
In a second public hearing about sewer installations around Dunkirk, affected residents and officials traded barbs and heated discussion while trying to hash out the "how" and "why" of the two projects.
The Jay County Regional Sewer District hosted a second public hearing about the Barbier Street and Skeens Addition sewer projects, which would bring sewer service to about 40 new households north and south of the city. But with a monthly sewer bill estimated at $60, some residents are, expectedly, unhappy about the installation.
The most vocal of those Monday night were Phil Ford and Tim Hummel, both who live on the north side of Dunkirk in the scope of the Skeens project.
Ford opened the evening, tossing out several pointed questions about costs and why the Dunkirk areas were targets for this first round of sewer installs.
Asking first about finances, Ford pointed out that some houses on the preliminary drawings are already hooked to city sewers and wouldn't need to be included. He also asked if there would be disparity depending on homes, for example, would a mobile home be charged the same as a new brick house?
Ben Adams of Commonwealth Engineers stressed that his reports have only been preliminary and that they are not perfect or complete. He may have accidentally included houses already on city sewer and will refine the project as it moves forward.
As for variable rates, a financial consultant will be completing a rate study to determine user costs in the future and that process is out of his hands as an engineer.
"No formal engineering has already been done," Adams said. "What you've gotten so far is a project estimate ... no more no less.
Adams fielded questions on rates before turning the focus away from the money and back to the "why" of the project.
"We're installing sewers to alleviate failing septics in the area," he said.
Ford then pivoted toward the "how," echoing a burning question he asked at the Feb. 9 meeting in Dunkirk.
"How did we identify those failed septics?" he asked.
Jay County Health Department officer Dave Houck said he has received complaints and that he knows the type of system in the area is improperly discharging material.
Ford and Houck wrangled, with Ford asking when data was obtained about this information and where he can review it.
"I'll be happy to (document violations)," Houck said, saying he could obtain search warrants to inspect septic systems in the area.
"That sounds like a threat," Ford said.
"That's not a threat," answered Houck, explaining that with a warrant he couldn't be turned away from the property.
When Ford continued to inquire, hammering on where the reports or data that show the Dunkirk area as an offending region are, Houck could only tell him that they had been thrown out or otherwise lost by past health department staff since they were made.
"You're getting ready to ask me to spend $30,000 so I need a better answer," Ford said.
"We definitely have other areas and I addressed those to the district," Houck said, trying to stress that Dunkirk was not randomly or unfairly picked and that other spots in the county will likely be future targets for development.
"What data did you use?" hammered Ford again.
"We know what's out there," Houck answered and said he commonly receives complaints about improperly working septics throughout the county.
"This is my overriding concern - you've got an area that has been mandated," Ford said, speaking of the Foxfire project outside Portland, "You're looking for a way to make that cheaper. All of the sudden we've been added. I haven't heard any empirical data."
With tempers running high, Ford said he didn't appreciate the way he was talked to by Houck, who said the same of Ford, before both were cut short by district president Gerald Kirby.
Kirby, playing peacemaker, responded to Ford's concern, stating the Dunkirk projects have been in sight since before the board was officially formed.
"They were talked about at the very first meeting - before Foxfire," Kirby said.
Hummel took over the second half of the meeting and started by focusing on scope, airing displeasure with the Skeens project, which includes his home.
"This project is not fairly balanced," he began, pointing out that the mileage on the sewer lines is about the same for the Foxfire and Skeens project. "You're going the same mileage for half the residents (in Skeens)."
Although the Skeens project does extend up toward county road 300 South without many connections, Adams said the main benefit is grabbing Miller's Merry Manor, which wants the new connection and will pay several times the normal residential rate due to the volume outputted from the facility.
Adams once again stressed that these are only preliminary plans and that he could look into adding or removing areas as he moves toward more formal designs. But, he repeated, the focus is not to cost people money or create work for construction crews, but to alleviate failing septic systems.
Kirby drew the focus toward finances, reminding people that this project will likely receive a 45 percent or higher grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
"None of us want to pay the thing," Kirby said. "But this is the best way to go about doing it."
"We could be talking about a $100 sewer bill," Adams agreed, citing several projects around Fort Wayne with monthly bills in that vicinity.
Hummel expressed the same concern as Ford that Dunkirk residents were being used to deflate costs on the must-do Foxfire sewers.
"It doesn't sound like there's any science to it," he said. "It's all hearsay."
Kirby disagreed.
"It's been kicked to the back burner year after year after year," he said. "We can't put it off any more. It isn't something we're making up to get a project done."
The conversation wound down and Kirby thanked those on hand for their input and publicly apologized to Ford for being rude to him on the phone prior to the meeting.
"Your questions have been searching and honest," he said.
"I appreciate what you're doing," Ford said. "I understand it's a distasteful job but I think you understand where we're coming from."
Kirby said that he did.
The sewer district's next meeting is tentatively scheduled for 6 p.m., Monday, March 9 in the commissioners' room of the courthouse. The board will entertain questions from Foxfire residents, who will be notified and encouraged to attend, about the project in that area.[[In-content Ad]]
The Jay County Regional Sewer District hosted a second public hearing about the Barbier Street and Skeens Addition sewer projects, which would bring sewer service to about 40 new households north and south of the city. But with a monthly sewer bill estimated at $60, some residents are, expectedly, unhappy about the installation.
The most vocal of those Monday night were Phil Ford and Tim Hummel, both who live on the north side of Dunkirk in the scope of the Skeens project.
Ford opened the evening, tossing out several pointed questions about costs and why the Dunkirk areas were targets for this first round of sewer installs.
Asking first about finances, Ford pointed out that some houses on the preliminary drawings are already hooked to city sewers and wouldn't need to be included. He also asked if there would be disparity depending on homes, for example, would a mobile home be charged the same as a new brick house?
Ben Adams of Commonwealth Engineers stressed that his reports have only been preliminary and that they are not perfect or complete. He may have accidentally included houses already on city sewer and will refine the project as it moves forward.
As for variable rates, a financial consultant will be completing a rate study to determine user costs in the future and that process is out of his hands as an engineer.
"No formal engineering has already been done," Adams said. "What you've gotten so far is a project estimate ... no more no less.
Adams fielded questions on rates before turning the focus away from the money and back to the "why" of the project.
"We're installing sewers to alleviate failing septics in the area," he said.
Ford then pivoted toward the "how," echoing a burning question he asked at the Feb. 9 meeting in Dunkirk.
"How did we identify those failed septics?" he asked.
Jay County Health Department officer Dave Houck said he has received complaints and that he knows the type of system in the area is improperly discharging material.
Ford and Houck wrangled, with Ford asking when data was obtained about this information and where he can review it.
"I'll be happy to (document violations)," Houck said, saying he could obtain search warrants to inspect septic systems in the area.
"That sounds like a threat," Ford said.
"That's not a threat," answered Houck, explaining that with a warrant he couldn't be turned away from the property.
When Ford continued to inquire, hammering on where the reports or data that show the Dunkirk area as an offending region are, Houck could only tell him that they had been thrown out or otherwise lost by past health department staff since they were made.
"You're getting ready to ask me to spend $30,000 so I need a better answer," Ford said.
"We definitely have other areas and I addressed those to the district," Houck said, trying to stress that Dunkirk was not randomly or unfairly picked and that other spots in the county will likely be future targets for development.
"What data did you use?" hammered Ford again.
"We know what's out there," Houck answered and said he commonly receives complaints about improperly working septics throughout the county.
"This is my overriding concern - you've got an area that has been mandated," Ford said, speaking of the Foxfire project outside Portland, "You're looking for a way to make that cheaper. All of the sudden we've been added. I haven't heard any empirical data."
With tempers running high, Ford said he didn't appreciate the way he was talked to by Houck, who said the same of Ford, before both were cut short by district president Gerald Kirby.
Kirby, playing peacemaker, responded to Ford's concern, stating the Dunkirk projects have been in sight since before the board was officially formed.
"They were talked about at the very first meeting - before Foxfire," Kirby said.
Hummel took over the second half of the meeting and started by focusing on scope, airing displeasure with the Skeens project, which includes his home.
"This project is not fairly balanced," he began, pointing out that the mileage on the sewer lines is about the same for the Foxfire and Skeens project. "You're going the same mileage for half the residents (in Skeens)."
Although the Skeens project does extend up toward county road 300 South without many connections, Adams said the main benefit is grabbing Miller's Merry Manor, which wants the new connection and will pay several times the normal residential rate due to the volume outputted from the facility.
Adams once again stressed that these are only preliminary plans and that he could look into adding or removing areas as he moves toward more formal designs. But, he repeated, the focus is not to cost people money or create work for construction crews, but to alleviate failing septic systems.
Kirby drew the focus toward finances, reminding people that this project will likely receive a 45 percent or higher grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
"None of us want to pay the thing," Kirby said. "But this is the best way to go about doing it."
"We could be talking about a $100 sewer bill," Adams agreed, citing several projects around Fort Wayne with monthly bills in that vicinity.
Hummel expressed the same concern as Ford that Dunkirk residents were being used to deflate costs on the must-do Foxfire sewers.
"It doesn't sound like there's any science to it," he said. "It's all hearsay."
Kirby disagreed.
"It's been kicked to the back burner year after year after year," he said. "We can't put it off any more. It isn't something we're making up to get a project done."
The conversation wound down and Kirby thanked those on hand for their input and publicly apologized to Ford for being rude to him on the phone prior to the meeting.
"Your questions have been searching and honest," he said.
"I appreciate what you're doing," Ford said. "I understand it's a distasteful job but I think you understand where we're coming from."
Kirby said that he did.
The sewer district's next meeting is tentatively scheduled for 6 p.m., Monday, March 9 in the commissioners' room of the courthouse. The board will entertain questions from Foxfire residents, who will be notified and encouraged to attend, about the project in that area.[[In-content Ad]]
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